Showing posts with label VENGER CON III. Show all posts
Showing posts with label VENGER CON III. Show all posts

Wednesday, July 24, 2024

VENGER CON III (the post-convention write-up, part 2)

 

Let's start at the end...

The last session of the con (that I participated in) was an investigative horror scenario that I wrote last October as a between Cha'alt campaigns break.  

This was my 3rd time running it.  Even though it was all typed up nice and neat, my organization strategy was abysmal.  I was flipping pages all over the place, and it was only about 7 pages long.

Nevertheless, I think it was successful.  More than any other type of scenario, investigative horror separates the active players from the passive players.  There isn't much call for GMs to ask quieter PCs, "So, what's your opinion of the new gods?" or "You see a sexy elf barmaid straining to pick up a heavy barrel of ale, what do you do?"

But now that I think about it, sure, I could have done more to rope the wallflowers (and I use that term affectionately... at certain times, I used to be more of a wallflower player) in.  But the post-lunch malaise was also a thing, and overall I think all the players managed to get their roleplaying beak wet.

I suppose it's because investigative horror is more goal-oriented?  Of course, that's the trouble (if you can call it that) with pretty much every convention game.  It's very rarely about meandering around, seeing what's happing, and occasionally getting into trouble.  And when it is, some players complain.  Haha, there's no winning.

Anyway, I like the scenario and finally remembered to break-out the sanity rules - 3rd time's the charm!  Nothing says you've entered a weird dimension of cosmic horror like magenta gloom, dark ambient (thanks, Lull) playing in the background, and the roll of sanity saving throws.

Roger's Sunday morning game was a lot of fun.  Judd and I played that, just the two of us.  It was like a buddy cop movie.  We were partners in crime, mercenaries under a fuchsia sky, just trying to make their way through Cha'alt.  The fact that Judd and I have gamed quite a bit with each other over the years (mostly in Cha'alt), and that we're both on the same page, RPG-wise, made it remarkably easy.

Also, getting to play in Cha'alt again was a lot of fun.  I was all juiced up from Judd's Alpha Blue session the night before, I guess, because once we got to that Chucky Cheese type restaurant, my character was hyper focused on getting a sexy waitress in the ball-pit!

As Roger correctly pointed out, and Judd confirmed, getting to play the game with the actual creator means that certain aspects and avenues of the game, which might be ignored under different circumstances, rise to the top.  

Having sex in the ball-pit (don't worry, I kept yelling for the kids to get the fuck outta here while doing it under the cover of colorful squishy balls) was Hetch's main concern, but getting that sweet, sweet +5 bonus to saves, skill-checks, and hit-points for the next 5 hours (that's why it's called Sleaze Factor-5) wasn't bad, either.  Hetch gave new meaning to the phrase "balls deep."

Torvak was Hetch's companion.  I was a blue velvet-elf sorcerer and Torvak a half-orc warrior.  Roger started us out at 3rd level with max HP (which is what I always do), and allowed us to choose a special ability from Cha'alt Ascended.  I forgot how awesome that is.  Sorry for lubricating my own tentacle, but I had forgotten over half of those 60+ options.  I kept running across feats that I would really like to have, both in a one-shot and campaign.  Will definitely utilize that PDF more going forward...

The three of us came up with some cool stuff in that adventure, some bits of lore that will probably carry over into CHA'ALT PRIME... whatever that is.  I'm thinking a kind of greater repository for Cha'alt related stuff that just becomes part of the overall eldritch, gonzo, science-fantasy, post-apocalypse culture.  

Speaking of which, from now on - and this goes for everybody in the RPG hobby, industry, community, or whatever - when you narrate something that should have (or could have, let's not get presumptive) come earlier, don't call it a ret-con.  What we're doing is presenting a flashback or analepsis of what happened earlier.

Ret-con implies that we're stopping the narrative flow to go back and fix something that's broken in order for the rest of the story to continue unabated.  A flashback or analepsis is a non-chronological event that's necessary to the narrative.  

For me personally, the word "flashback" conjures something else to mind... either frequent LSD use or a momentary remembrance of an event that has already been experienced; roleplayed.  And no one knows what the fuck "analepsis" means, so what I would do is call it an out-of-sequence cut-scene, letting people know that what's happening now actually took place earlier (or later). 

Between singing and dancing lizard-bears, bantha jawbone weapons, klikna'ars as a unit of distance, ziggurat schemes, and words of wisdom like "They don't fuck you at the drive-thru," we had a great time.

Last but not least, let me tell you about Judd's Alpha Blue game Saturday night.  It both seemed completely off-the-cuff, spontaneously improvised and also like something he'd been diligently working on for weeks.  I didn't want to ask, as a magician should preserve his magic whenever possible.  

Not being super familiar with the system, he asked me to help everybody with character creation, which I did.  Probably the best way of doing it since I've done that dozens of times over the years and each time it gets a bit easier.  The only thing I wish I'd done differently is that I neglected to mention the advantages (other than starting life as a typewriter, of course) of being a droid.

However, before long we were off and running.  I think we had 6 players or so, and everyone was in the mood for humor, sleaze, and retro-futurism.  Basically, the entire adventure was one massive pun broken-up into 37 bite-sized pieces.  

I played Bashir, an alien (crystalline) pimp.  It wasn't until well after the session that I realized I never used the alienisms I rolled on the d100 table.  Next time I run it, I'm going to offer players a point of Divine Favor... Blue Favor(?) to those whose character actually roleplays the stuff they rolled at character creation.

BBQ is the universe's second oldest profession.  The Baron Hard's conys (that's colloquial slang for coney-dog - a chili-dog you'd find at Coney Island - in certain parts of the country) versus Duke Tradee's delicious BBQ.  The spices must flow as the entire galaxy holds its collective breath to see who will win the culinary guild's cookoff competition.  

We took our Federation ice-cream delivery shuttle to the planet Dude in search of Duke Tradee's son and side-piece.  Half the session I was laughing, the other half trying to piece together the mystery of who was trying to grease the wheels within wheels with delicious mesquite-flavored pork juice.  Oh, and my character had sex with a uniformed woman at the Alpha Blue food court.  Getting an in-game bonus was so far away from my mind, that I only now realized I could have rolled for extra hit-points.

I might not get to play in an RPG until next VENGER CON, so I take my pleasures where I can.  ;)

Here's some funny stuff heard around the table...

  • "The Huffle Puff in him dies a little inside."
  • "Put your penis in the box."
  • "I should really create a random prophecy generator." 
  • "I don't judge, I just hashtag."
  • Many, many things having to do with the cult of Ron Jeremy.
  • "The Potter boy?  That lightning-scarred trollop!"
  • "Never trust a girl that went to a bene gesserit high school."

By the time 10pm rolled around, I was beat.  However, I stopped by the convention's main room to see what was shakin'.  All the games were over, and people were drinking beer, talking, and partying.  I drove 10 minutes home shortly after that.

For those who attended, here's the $437,000 question... did you experience PSYCHOCOSM?  In layman's terms, did you momentarily feel like you were really there, in that make-believe world?  Like you were someone else, that your character's actions were your own?  At the end of the day... or convention, in this case, immersion should be our primary concern. 

Really, the entire weekend was beyond fun... and can't wait to do it again next year!  Still waiting on confirmation of availability.  Stay tuned!

Thanks,

VS

p.s. If you still don't have your hardcover Cha'alt books, order now!!!

Monday, July 22, 2024

VENGER CON III: The Heccaeity of RPG Conventions (part one)

 

Playing things by ear, spontaneous, improvised, whatever the moment calls for... this is the Venger way, both the convention and myself.

I make plans, just like everybody else, but as we all know, the universe has its own way of influencing what shall be - unburdened by what has been.

I ended up running less than I thought I would, and not exactly the games I assumed.  I prepared 3 original Cha'alt adventures, ran 2 of them and 1 Call of Cthulhu type scenario.  I never go into VENGER CON expecting to play anything specific.  

This weekend, I played in Judd's Alpha Blue (sleazy space opera RPG) game and Roger's Cha'alt game.  I'll do my best to report on all the sessions I was involved with (and provide pictures - all the pics worth developing are also on my Twitter account with the hashtag #VENGERCON).

Let me say now, before I forget, that the hotel was down right amazing.  Everyone mentioned the upgrade from the first 2 years.  It was just so much newer, luxurious, and more beautiful than your average hotel.  Many attendees raved about it.  I don't think we can go back in quality, so will see what I can do about reserving space again next July.

Attendance was up from the VC1 and VC2, both at attendance of 25, to 30.  Full disclosure - I needed 40 to break-even, but at least I can write-off the loss (sold a few Cha'alt hardcovers and softcovers, as well), and if we can get  40 or 50 attendees next year (which I definitely think is possible), it'll be worth it.

I was gifted the Dallas television roleplaying game boxed-set, and was determined to incorporate some of its themes, rules, and lore into at least 1 of my Cha'alt sessions, which I did.  Thanks for that, hoss!

After banging the ceremonial gong [video of that], opening the way, I gave a little talk on heccaeity or thisness.  For everyone still wondering WTF Venger was talking about, here is a video explaining the concept.  Throughout the convention, heccaeity was mentioned, sort of becoming a VENGER CON meme or "word of the day," but for the entire weekend.

Adding essential / non-essential details is something I will continue to struggle with, as much as I can until either my creativity or cowardice gives in, and says, "Yeah, that's quite enough of that, hoss."

Ok, so my first session was on Friday morning... instead of pre-gens (which is normally what I provide at conventions), I decided to let players either bring back their previous VENGER CON characters or create new ones.  Since there was zero noise/distractions during every session I was apart of (a max of two active tables per room - we had a total of 3 rooms), I didn't feel rushed to "get to the game," as it were.

The roster included Yvol the warrior infernal-elf with a shoulder imp named Yum-Yum, Tittlelick the reptilian sorcerer with a fin on his head who lays an egg (which he's self-conscious about) when he hasn't eaten humanoid flesh that day, the returning ST-K1 or The Saint assassin-droid thief with matte-black exterior and purple filigree tattoos when he's not trying to be stealthy, Vorp a human priest - gaunt, tan, sleeps in the sand, and worships the Great Dune, and latecomer (due to a water heater emergency at his home) returning human, Gabrielle, cleric and worshiper of the King in Yellow.

They started out in A'agrybah, on their way to the Tribunal of Liberty, as they'd been called for an important mission.  On the way, they encountered a few things near and within the plaza's bazaar.  Two demon factions vied for power in the subterranean caves and tunnels dotted with pink crystals known as Diablo Rossa.

The PCs had a few different intertwining objectives, which they pursued with vigor and grace.  Rescuing the prisoners and foiling one faction's plans to slaughter everyone on the surface, they snuck in, explored, and got back out again before a giant mauve worm could devour them - Gabrielle used a strange crystal he picked up from VC2 as a flash-bomb to distract the mauve worm long enough for everyone to escape.  

I got to use one of my favorite new maps, and showed players how the Gilded Die of Satanis works, along with the Cha'alt X-Cards.  I believe 2 of the 8 were used... the most memorable being GRINDHOUSE EXPLOITATION where a torture device was being used on a prisoner and as demons were trying to fit it on a human, enough pressure was applied that the entire skull smashed, showering everyone in brain juice and skull fragment.  It was funny and gross.

I'm telling you, Cha'alt X-Cards are an innovative revelation, and undoubtedly the best thing I've come up with since Crimson Escalation (probably the most downloaded PDF of Kort'thalis Publishing's entire catalog).


Another highlight was Tittlelick using a massive pink crystal (along with the SLEAZE Cha'alt X-Card, if memory serves) to boost his spell, glamoring Yvol into an infernal Amazonian sex-goddess with magic missiles firing out of her buoyant nipples.

Between Kirby dots, Cha'alt group-ons, unnatural 20s (that will be a PDF of something or other soon), and the knowledge that in the RPG of life, we're all in hot pursuit of something, it was a Hell of a good time!

The second Cha'alt game I ran was the Dallas-tinged fiasco where every PC also had an ulterior motive, whether they were part of the Ewing Zoth Company, its chief rival, the Zoth Futures Private Equity Company, or an interested party of the lucrative zoth-trade.  Ten-gallon hats were worn and zoth-rich land contracts sought after.

I had planned for a sub-system where PCs engaging in persuasion, coercion, seduction, and revenge would get Divine Favor, but there was literally so much going on that I forgot about that part, even though that stuff was in my notes - next time!

The roster for this session included Maroon the warrior human who likes expensive cocktails, The Saint and Tittilick (reprising their roles), Eric Thornslayer a human thief who's plain and very boring (roleplayed by a player in my Cha'alt home-campaign), Fentyna'al a med-droid priest who dispenses drugs, suppositories, and healing like a pez, and Ua'anok a human sorcerer (employed by the Federation as an open secret). 

The PCs were all making their way to Zoth Con by way of the A'agrybah plaza and the bazaar.  They went into a strange man's tent to either buy a time-share in Orlando or taste-test some new experimental kind of zoth that was purple and possibly tasted like wonderful, albeit artificial, strawberries... simulation strawberries?   

Weird side-effects were rolled (I meant to use this d30 purple mutant zoth random table a lot more than I actually did), and the guy in the tent, Musta'afa Quattara, was the talk of Zoth Con, but after the convention, when his tent was gone, he gave word that he'd run away to make more "purple haze" zoth in the belly of a purple worm corpse.

Drowning their sorrows, the PCs went to a cantina where a trio of black robed assassins were discussing the discovery of a newly dead purple worm and how valuable its venom-sacs would be if plundered.  Putting 2 and 2 together to get 5, the adventures followed the assassins at a discrete distance.  

Inside the worm (special thanks to Mad Scribe Games for attending, playing, telling fascinating stories, and saying nice things about my custom maps), the PCs encountered many weird sights - a man named Ted who'd been ravaged by a mean cat, a splooge-gore and his laser-toting valkyrie-harem girls (a la RIFTS), the cat in question, a fuchsia dragon (which the PCs surprisingly bypassed with a sleep suppository), worm worshipers, the aforementioned assassins, and a sorcerer who almost killed the entire party with his fireball.  

That session rivaled one of my favorites a couple years ago at Game Hole Con (why, oh why, must they ruin that convention by miring their logo with the trans-grooming "progress" pride rainbow flag?) where all the players seemed as if they had snorted zoth-cocaine as murder-hobos are wont to do.

It was zany and madcap without even needing the Cha'alt X-Cards or Gilded Die of Satanis.  Here are some quotes in bullet-point...

  • "Tsathagg-kha says, 'I blame the fans.'" 
  • "When you enter Cha'alt, Cha'alt enters you."
  • "Preparation H is code for inserting something."
  • "Venger was bit by a radioactive color-wheel as a child."
  • "There's not a demon alive who doesn't know what the internet is."
  • "Bubbling crude, chartreuse gold, Cha'altian tea."
  • "The human face of worm supremacy."
  • "Larry Elder God."
  • "2 weeks in Cha'altian Orlando."
  • "Bum fight... or cult fight - Cha'alt edition."
  • "My alignment is Cha'altian."
  • "2 girls, 1 zoth... chartreuse twins."
  • "I thought chartreuse was blue, but then I'm a little bit color blind."
  • "Hawk-Tua, spit on that tha'ang."
  • "They are threatening to get rid of the petro-talon."
  • "Double-fist his coin purse."
  • "Did you get stranged by that Slorr?  Were you Slorr-stranged, hoss?"
  • "On his deathbed, many years from now, it finally occurred to ST-K1 that Ted couldn't possibly have been a were-cat."

Oh yes, it was some of the best fun that middle-aged men (married, recently divorced, or in committed relationships) can have without breaking the law in America.  Good times!  Between games, we ate, drank, talked about the hobby, politics, and various subjects.

I got to roll on the d100 Past Events random table from How To Game Master Like A Fucking Boss.  And like I said earlier, I will make something of that "unnatural 20" phrase.  Not sure what yet, but it'll be something worthy of Kort'thalis Publishing and Venger Satanis.

Part 2 either tomorrow or the next day, and I think that'll wrap-up VENGER CON III: Revenge of the OSR.  The feedback was amazing!  Everyone I talked to wants me to do it again next year, so will have news on that next week or so.

Thanks to the guest of honor this year Diversity & Dragons for attending, running, playing, and just being awesome in general.  This is a quick livestream that Double-D uploaded onto his channel.  Check it out!

Enjoy,

VS

p.s. Only a few more days for this probably doomed Kickstarter - Lavender Moons of Cha'alt.  I'm going to try and rework it if we don't hit our funding goal, so at least we get some of the Cha'alt webcomic.  

Thursday, July 18, 2024

Purple Zoth random table

 

I know there are dozens of OSR folks who couldn't make it to VENGER CON III this weekend.  But we appreciate your support and solidarity from afar!

Even though we can't game at the same table, we can still use the same random table.  

This is a collaborate between Robert Vegvari and myself.  I'm going to try and roll on this table multiple times per session - and so should you, hoss!

Is this how you get the delicious grape-flavored liqueur Purple Prizm?


Taking the "Zoth" Pilled d30 effects table by Robert Vegvari (this is for the purple-hued, mutant variant of zoth):

1-One of your extremities becomes a purple stretchy/rubbery tentacle which you can control.

Roll 1d6 for which one: 1-Left arm, 2-Right arm, 3-Left Leg, 4-Right Leg, 5-Your dick! / if you are a woman, either your tongue, labia, clit, etc., or 6-Head.

2-Your skin hardens like a candy shell turning a deep dark shade of purple, and gain 3 AC but you your skin will melt of when water hits it (saving throw).

3-Your eyes turn purple and you can see the extradimensional creatures from the movie "From Beyond.”

4-When you need to poop, you lay a yellow-green slimy egg instead. It will hatch into a "voracious purple worm" and will grow to full size in 1d4 hours.

5-For 1d4 rounds, the entire area immediately fills up with a purple liquid gelatin – quick thinking or great lung capacity might be required to survive if it’s over 2 minutes.

6-You now know how to play "Smoke on the water" from Deep Purple, the full song not just the part almost anybody can play.

7-You find yourself with the cartoon Beatles on the yellow submarine, only the submarine is purple and floating inside some Lovecraftian alien creature.

8-For 1d20 minutes you can dance really well if you want to.

9-Nothing happens (However the DM should mess with you to make you think something happened).  Make them roll one of each 7 types of dice + the d30 and have them record all the numbers in order and then have them assign a specific color for each result.  Lol

10-You find yourself in the body of the player who is playing you in the real world for 1d10 minutes.

11-You have the irresistible urge to record a podcast, even if your character doesn’t know what that is.

12-You fall unconscious. As you awake you find yourself tied-up in a box wearing a gimp suit; you hear muffled voices approaching.

13-You rapidly age, turning into a skeleton "Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade" style and die. Your spirit awakes at an arena concert for the band Styx as they play “Come Sail Away.”

14-You become a "Grape" Fruitie humanoid from the module "Descent into the Candy Crypts" and you speak with some kind of a grape-tastic accent.

15-You split into into two identical copies of yourself, including gear and what you are wearing. The clone will accuse you of being a clone, but maybe you are the clone?

16-You moonwalk now, better than any other living humanoid in the galaxy… except perhaps Captain EO.

17-A purple frog appears.  If no else is watching he will sing the old song "Hello, My Baby!" and dance with a cane and top hat. When anyone else looks he’ll revert into ordinary frog-mode, and no one will believe you; recording counts as "someone viewing" and doesn’t work. If you try to kill the frog he will multiply. Only way to kill it is to throw it into the realm’s largest volcano.

18-Your tongue becomes purple and forked permanently, you speak with excessive ssss’s.

19-Your non-dominant hand transforms into a luger which can transform into a small robot. It needs you so it can be shot in his gun form (3d6 damage), so it tolerates you until you are no longer useful.

20-The purple mutant zoth tastes like good hard liquor, making you [feel] invincible for 1d4 turns.

21-You develop a mutation from the Encounter Critical random table (lasting about an hour).

22-You fall in a berserker rage as the song "Murder Train" is audible from an unknown source, and attack everyone until you or everyone else dies. For the next 3 rounds, you attack with Advantage and do double the damage.

23-You turn into a hot version of the opposite sex for the next hour.

24-You get visited by cuddly bears who want to help you if good-aligned or attack you with rainbow belly-ray if evil-aligned.

25-You become a Rubix Cube. You will only change back if someone can solve you. If no one attempts to solve the cube, Ashton Kutcher and Seann William Scott appear from nowhere with encouragement such as “Dude” and “Sweet” until the puzzle is solved.

26-Your shadow becomes purple… and demonic!  This infernal shadow is capable of strangling another humanoid’s shadow if they’re alone (save or die).

27-Immediately after drinking, 1d4 sexy purple-skinned succubae appear, trying to sexually entice you to give up your soul in exchange for tantalizing carnal pleasures.

28-Roll on the TMNT Palladium RPG table for insanity, you have that now permanently.

29-You know the secret ingredients to KFC fried-chicken. From now on, Colonel Sanders from different planes of existence will hunt you down from time to time.

30- You appear in Carcosa. You have the C64 cassette version of the game "Crimson Dragon Slayer" in one pocket and a giant purple dildo in your hand.  Meanwhile, dinosaurs tower above you, battling to the death!


Thursday, January 25, 2024

Calling All Gamers For VENGER CON III

 

It's that time, hoss.  

July, especially for those of us surrounded by ice and snow, seems like a long ways away... but really it's only 6 months from now.

I really want VENGER CON III: Revenge of the OSR to be even better than the first two conventions.  Knowing what you want to run and what you want to play will help enormously.  So, speak up and give me your proposed schedules, wish-lists, and tentative desires.

You can email me at: Venger.Satanis@yahoo.com

I'll be running a combination of Cha'alt, Alpha Blue, and whatever weird old-school, OSR, or traditional RPG attendees want me to run.  In fact, let me know what bizarre, odd-ball RPG one-shot you'd like me to run during VENGER CON III and y'all will eventually get a chance to vote for the top nominees.  Whatever you want (but if it's not rules-light, I'll probably hack it or handwave it)!

And if you haven't already, grab your weekend badge right over here.

Big spaces, limited attendance, laidback & easy going structure, new hotel, nice rooms, not having to shout to be heard or lose your voice talking over the noise, meet fellow gamers and actually get to know them over the weekend, hang-out and game with me (will start out at least one morning of the convention with an Ask-Me-Anything Q&A) and other awesome folks, along with this year's guest of honor Scott from the Diversity & Dragons YouTube channel.

Last but not least, VENGER CON's demon mascot Zeemoa'ar!  He'll be there at the convention as I open each day of awesomeness by sounding the gong.  The whole weekend will be unbelievably epic, and I can't wait to share those experiences with you guys this July (when Wisconsin gets warm again).

Thanks,

VS

Sunday, August 27, 2023

Revenge of the OSR

 

Registration for VENGER CON III: Revenge of the OSR is officially open.  

This right here is the link!

It's going to be a wild, amazing, game-filled, glorious time for those able to attend this July convention on the east side of Madison Wisconsin (actually, right on the edge of Sun Prairie and Madison).

The last two VENGER CONs were fantastic, and this one is at an even nicer, newer hotel.  We're lucky to find an amazing venue at such a reasonable rate.  However, when I say reasonable... well, it's still a bit pricey.  Basically, my overhead just doubled.  Instead of needing 20 attendees to break-even, I'll need 40.

But I'm also confident that we'll sell-out at 100 (that's the maximum attendance).  Promotional marketing is key.  If you could throw some links around social media or to based and zoth-pilled gaming friends you know, that would be fantastic!  I can send you either the tall or wide banner for your blog, if you'd like to host it.  Just email me: Venger.Satanis@yahoo.com

Meanwhile, I'll be sending around flyers locally in order to bring gamers in the tri-state area closer together, uniting around principles of awesomeness.

It seemed like half of all attendees are Game Masters, and expert-level at that, so there won't be any shortage of games.  I intend to run Cha'alt, Alpha Blue, and this Lovecraftian mystery RPG that I'll start working on in 2024.  Plus, I should have book 4 of the Cha'alt trilogy in-tentacle by VENGER CON III

If you have any questions, comments, or feedback, let me know.

Until then, I'll be around - here on Venger's old-school gaming blog, Twitter [X], Facebook (as Darrick Dishaw), YouTube, and MeWe.

There's news in my non-gaming life, too.  My Father just passed away a couple days ago.  He was 87, and still fairly sharp of mind and in mostly decent health up until the end.  It's no exaggeration to say that I owe him everything.  Best Dad ever!  He was always extremely supportive of my book writing dreams, and loved having his signed hardcover Cha'alt books on the coffee table for everyone to see.  

Thanks for all the well-wishing and continued support from everyone around me, and our entire family.

Love you guys,

VS

p.s. I've been selling Cha'alt hardcovers like hotcakes recently.  That means the end is actually in sight, and it won't be long before they're gone (probably by VENGER CON IV: The Search For More Money, so don't freak out if you're currently struggling in these trying economic times). Ordering details here.